Nuzizo Online City

gin_0 wrote on Jan 22, 03:51 PM

Hi Masryiaatl,

I guess what gets lost in this time of overgeneralization is the truth. For me it is that we are all the same. "Those people' only leads to demonization as if they are so different and alien from ourselves. We cry, we laugh, we love and we are foolish and all the other things everyone is.

shoobidoobidoo wrote on Jan 22, 03:56 PM

Hello M... Thank you for this interesting post...I can understand yours and other Muslim's frustration in the theme of this season's "24". It is unfortunate that some Americans could watch this issue and be brain washed into thinking that the majority of muslims are terrorists and that they want to kill as many Americans as possible; of course we know that that's not the reality. The reality is that the majority of Arab/Muslims are peaceful people and would like to live in harmony with other people of faith. The problem is that a minority of fanatic Muslims have hijacked Islam and it's teaching to suit their own motives through their own misguided interpretations. The unfortunate reality is that all of the suicide bombings in the last few years, in different parts of the world have been carried out by Muslims in the name of their religion and God, hence the stereotyping of Muslims being terrorists.

This is what baffles me, and maybe you or someone else can explain it to me: Arab/Muslims are very quick to condemn, protest, and come out against TV shows and movies where a Muslim is shown to be a terrorist, but I rarely hear any Muslim condemning the actual suicide bombings that happen around the world. Moderate Muslims become very upset with a show like 24 but yet they refuse to criticize the real world events which can give rise to such shows that can cause ignorant Americans to become misinformed.

I am a secular atheist and as such I'm 100% against wars, no matter what the cause is. We need to realize that we are all Homo Sapiens sharing a small blue and green planet that's been around for billions of years; we are here for a very limited time. God does not exist; never has and never will. We (humans) are responsible for our own destiny.

nubianbutterfly wrote on Jan 22, 06:55 PM

This is for mostly for Shobidoobidoo, and for anyone else who doesn't have google.
"The undersigned, leaders of Islamic movements, are horrified by the events of Tuesday 11 September 2001 in which the United States resulted in massive killing, destruction and attack on innocent live. We express our deepest sympathies and sorrow. We condemn, in the strongest term, the incidents, which are against all human and Islamic norms. This is grounded in the Noble Laws of Islam which forbid all forms of attacks on the innocent. God almighty says in the Holy Qur'an: "No bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another' (Surah al-Isra 17:15)"

posted Sept 14th MSAN News

"[WE] strongly condemn such activities that are against all humanist and Islamic morals...[We] condemn and oppose all aggression on human life, freedom and dignity anywhere in the world"
posted 19 Sept 2001 Al-Ahram weekly

"Besides the fact that they are forbidden by Isam, these acts do not serve those who carried them out but their victims, who will reap the sympathy of the whole world...Isamist who live arccording to the human values of Isam could not commit such crimes.
posted Sept 14th 2001 france press

Do the research! It goes on and on from the bombing of the USS Cole, from what just happened in Bagdad a few hours ago with the road side bombinf that killed 100 plus there is even a statement from the Oklahoma City bombing. Christ Almighty please know what you are talking about and do your research so others won't have to do it for you.

shoobidoobidoo wrote on Jan 22, 07:28 PM

Nubian, thank you for reminding me that you can find anything on google. For every statement of condemnation that you can find on suicide bombings, there is one in favor of it in the real world. After 9/11 mostly everyone condemned those deplorable acts. I'm not referring to those public statements, I'm talking about real condemnation. It's not merely enough to condemn these acts, you have to look at the main cause of it; religion. Do you honestly believe that a suicide bomber would blow himself up if he wasn't sure that heaven and virgins are awaiting him???

And since you like to google, maybe you should google the reverse of your search above! Below is an excerpt from Human Rights News from April of 2006:

The new Hamas-led Palestinian Authority put itself on the wrong side of the most fundamental principle of international humanitarian law when Hamas’s official spokesman defended Monday’s suicide bombing in Tel Aviv, Human Rights Watch said today.
Human Rights Watch called on the Palestinian government led by the Islamic Resistance Movement, or Hamas, to state unambiguously that attacks targeting civilians constitute grave crimes no matter what the circumstances. The Palestinian Authority must take concrete steps to prevent such attacks and bring those responsible for them to justice.

“In forming a government, Hamas took on the responsibility to prevent unlawful attacks against civilians by its own forces and other Palestinian armed groups as well,” said Joe Stork, deputy director of Human Rights Watch’s Middle East and North Africa division.

The Palestinian armed group Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility for Monday’s attack in a Tel Aviv café, which killed nine civilians in addition to the bomber. After the attack Sami Abu Zuhri, a long-time official spokesman for Hamas, was widely quoted as saying that “the operation is a natural reaction to continued Israeli crimes against our people,” and that “the Palestinian people are in a state of self defense and have every right to use all means to defend themselves.”

Other Hamas officials also endorsed the attack. Wasfi Kabha, minister for prisoners’ affairs in the government, told reporters that the attack occurred “in the framework of legitimate right of resistance against Israeli violations and crimes.” Musa Abu Marzuk, a senior member of Hamas’s political bureau, called the attack “a natural response to the Israeli aggression on our people.”

nubianbutterfly wrote on Jan 22, 11:20 PM

Hey Shoo,

I think you are making my point.

HAMAS (in Arabic, an acronym for "Harakat Al-Muqawama Al-Islamia" -- Islamic Resistance Movement -- and a word meaning zeal) is a radical Islamic fundamentalist organization which became active in the early stages of the intifada, operating primarily in the Gaza District but also in Judea and Samaria. Formed in late 1987 as an outgrowth of the Palestinian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood. Various HAMAS elements have used both political and violent means, including terrorism, to pursue the goal of establishing an Islamic Palestinian state in place of Israel. Loosely structured, with some elements working clandestinely and others working openly through mosques and social service institutions to recruit members, raise money, organize activities, and distribute propaganda. In a January 2006 election, Hamas won a majority of seats in the Palestinian legislature.

Hamas is a terrorist organization.

And of course the Human Rights Watch is alarmed by their statements..and rightly so. Now you said "you have to look at main cause of it" all one has to do is read what you have posted:

"The operation is a natural reaction to the continued Israeli crimes against our peolpe" ,and that the Pelestinian people are in a state of self defense, and have every right to use all means to defend ourselfs"

And anothing thing, when you are quoting something, please do not take it out of context.
Hamas is an radical Islamic fundamentalist organization which claims to be the Islamic Resistance Movement. Knowing that, you then have to ask your self why this type a group won in a landslide their general legislative elections?
Because you chose Hamas to make my point here are some sites and books you should check out:
www.mideastweb.org/timeline.htm This site will show how far back this conflict between Palenstine vs. Israel goes
www.masada2000.org/history.html This site is pretty easy to understand, and it will show the Palestines are "up in arms"

*Understanding Terrorism in America: From the Klan to Al Qaeda, by Christopher Hewitt
*Dictionary of Terrorism by Charles Townsed
*Origin of the Palenstine-Irael Conflict
*Terrorism and U.S. Foreign Policy Paul R. Pillar

You also stated that, "For every statement of condemnation that you can find on suicide bombings, there is one in favor of it in the real world." I was wondering if you could do me a favor? Will you please post three quotes "in favor", and also where you found them. Oh and one more thing, none of the quotes you post can be from any known terrorist groups.

Will you also post a link to the Human Rights Watch you quoted above,
Thanks Nubiam

shoobidoobidoo wrote on Jan 23, 12:55 PM

Nubian, thank you for your reply, it was interesting and informative.

One thing I do not want to do here is to take sides on the Israeli and Palestinian conflict, because in my mind both are extremely wrong. I'm also well aware of the many definitions of Terrorism and it's long, devastating, and meaningless history. I beg of you not to give me a history lesson as to why the Palestinians are doing what they are doing and why the Israelis are doing what they are doing. Bottom line; both sides are killing each other because both sides think that there god has given them that piece of dry and barren land. Think about it for a minute...it's absolutely ridiculous, for an atheist like me, to see people killing each other over a piece of land??!!

Listen, it is very difficult to resolve the issue on hand if we have to keep referring to it's history, because history only shows the mistakes that have been committed on both sides. It would be one thing to learn from history and make sure not to repeat it's mistakes, but in this case it seems the history books only serve to fuel the fire.

Nubian, I'm glad you joined Nuzizo :-)

nubianbutterfly wrote on Jan 23, 07:46 PM

Hey Shoo, Thanks for that dap, I love the peace symbol.

I think you've misunderstood me. I not trying to give you a "History Lesson". I wanted you to simply make your point. In your 1st comment your stated:

"Arab/Muslims are very quick to condemn, protest, and come out against TV shows and movies where a Muslim is shown to be a terrorist, but I rarely hear any Muslim condemning the actual suicide bombings that happen around the world."

That statement really rubbed med the wrong way, and I posted the comments that you stated you raley heard, and posted where you could find it. Then you dismissed those comments by saying:

"For every statement of condemnation that you can find on suicide bombings, there is one in favor of it in the real world."

I asked you to post just three of those comments that didn't come from any known terrorist groups, and you haven't. I would love to see things from your point of view, but so far you haven't shown me anything to go on.

As far as the history goes, it is I feel, extreamly important to understand what's going on.
The study of history has allowed us to give appropriations to the Japenese American's wronged in WWII, and even to some desendants of Slavery. And yes, I can understand why people are fighting over land, and other property that has been stolen from them.

For an example, let's say you have an army, with all the bells and whistles. And you thought my house and land would serve you better than me, so you take it. So what am I to do with no army or LED's? I would thow rocks, flamming bottles of gasolise, and yes maybe even blow myself up. Because "if I can't have it niether will you". And hopefully you haven't missed the point, hopefully you have something you would be willing to fight, kill and die for. I know I do and it's not my house I used that only as an example.
So your an atheist? Never once did I think to point out what I see as flaws in your conviction. For you to post "God does not exist; never has and never will." is just the same as if you were knocking door to door handing out those little copies of Jehovah's Witnesses books. I could only image how hot you'd be if I directed you to a "power of prayer" site. Just take a minute to think about how'd you'd feel if I did. You'd be pist, wouldn't you? Now you know exatly how Masriyaatl is going to feel when she see's your post. You have to be more aware that you are not the only person on earth with very passionate convictions. And if you don't want anyone to step on your toes about your very, very passionate beliefs, please watch where you step.

nubianbutterfly wrote on Jan 24, 06:18 AM

Hi Masriyaatl, I hope beyond anything that I did not upset you, that was the very last thing I wanted to do. I have had the opportunity to travel extensivly through out the middle east, asia, and africa. I have to remeber that not every has had my life experiences or education level. And I could debate this issue until I can no longer breath, but if the person, or persons I am debating with do not take it upon themselves to be educated it will turn in to a shouting match. I am so adamant and passonaite about this subject, that sometimes I get carried away. So, until I can win every battle :) I will do my very best to get along. I didn't mean to upset either you or Shoo. (ok, maybe I wanted to upset Shoo a little bit, but only because I took some of his commets personal and maybe I shouldn't have.)

shoobidoobidoo wrote on Jan 24, 01:41 PM

Dear Masriya and Nubian,

I'm getting the feeling that you think of me as a muslim hater, most likely due to the fact that I'm criticizing your religion and the acts that are done in it's name. Please allow me to assure you that I have a serious problem with all religions and all gods. I am also not taking sides in regard to the Palestinians and Israelis...again, both sides are very seriously wrong in their beliefs, religious and political. I agree that most of the world has turned a blind eye to the plight of the Palestinians, and that most of the atrocious and heinous crimes of the Israeli government has gone on for many years without any serious condemnation. But, what kind of resolution is strapping bombs to yourself and getting on a bus and blowing yourself up into smithereens. Killing innocent people will not make anything better and justice will not be served. Just look at all the innocent people who have been killed by the Israelis in the occupied territories. We can debate this issue forever, but peace is the ultimate solution.

Masriya, in your reply you mentioned that you refuse to be told that something you are so passionate about doesn't exist!!! Let me first say that I am in no way trying to disrespect anyone, however I am respectfully criticizing people's belief in a sky god. Just because it is something you are passionate about, it doesn't make it immune to criticism. Ponder this for a second; I can criticize anyone's political views without being called disrespectful. I can pretty much criticize any belief of others as long as it is done respectfully and intellectually. However, religion and belief in god have for some reason become off limit to criticism!!! Why? When billions of people believe in certain dogmas and those dogmas shape our world and effect just about everyone on this earth, why can't it be criticized. When you say you refuse to be told, you are one step away from taking away my freedom of speech. Answer this for me; If I were to go to a muslim nation, lets say Saudi Arabia and I publicly denounce the existence of god and say that Mohammad was just an ordinary man; what would happen to me? I think you know what would be the outcome of such an act!!!

I have not read your profiles, but I take it that you are both Muslims. Why are you not Christian, Catholic, Jew, or Buddhist??? Do you believe in the virgin birth??? Do you believe that Jesus was the son of God??? Do you believe in the story of Noah's Arc??? Do you believe the story of Genesis???

I will leave you with this...In the world of science, where experiments are done and results are achieved, there is no shred of evidence for the sky god or a creator, None. God, like you said Masriya, you feel in your heart and soul, which means it's all in your head. Your heart's function is to pump blood through out your body, and your soul, well that's a whole different topic. What you feel so passionately about has been taught to you ever since you were a impressionable little girl, and as a baby we are genetically programmed to listen and believe everything that our parents tell us, because it is mostly for our own good. We can not afford not to trust our parents and experiment for ourselves, so we believe. If you were born to Japanese parents, you would most likely be an atheist, think about that.

saidamin wrote on Jan 24, 05:13 PM

thought provoking posts...

this thread has inspired me to ask, how can the good people of this earth come together and live better? religion has unfortunately become an excuse/scapegoat for some people's hatred, finger pointing and political agendas. peoples skin, faith, place of birth, gender, has no bearing on the personal choice for how one chooses to live. i believe that the majority of humans (spiritual, pious and non-pious) are loving citizens of this earth who choose to live "well" and that only a small minority of extremist, narrow minded people spread hatred and fear; unfortunately, extremist voices often make the most noise. nevertheless, we can rise together one by one, hand in hand, as loving brothers and sisters of all faiths/backgrounds, and allow our collective voices, dreams, energy and love to spread.

inspiration and love are contagious, but it starts with you.

i believe, therefore i am.

life is good!

one,
-s

(ps: sorry for getting off topic from your original post)

ladiablesse wrote on Jan 24, 05:41 PM

Two thumbs up for Said!! I too believe that people use religion and personal beliefs to persecute and hate others who do not believe what they believe, look like they look or walk the same line as they do. Who was it that said "Can't we all just get along?" lol

I don't care what if you believe in God, Allah, Jehovah or just yourself. What I care about is how you treat me and others around you. If you ask yourself are you doing things to help your fellow man, whether it be small or big, whenever the opportunity arises and you can answer yes, then you are a good person and that is all that counts.

One love...
Lee

honeybee wrote on Jan 24, 06:33 PM

Well put Said ...
all of you have your points - passions - beliefs ... none of you are wrong ... what is wrong is telling people what they should or shouldn't believe because someone or something told them it is so (ie. Mullahs, Priests, Scientists) ... Shooby makes a point but then shoots himself in the foot ... Shoob puts down religion, however, the way he talks about Atheism one would think he is talking about a religion ... he too happens to belong to a common belief system that a group of people believes in ... hmmm sounds like religion to me ... whether you believe in a God, gods, goddesses, or No god at all ... it's just that ... a belief ... why this back and forth ... it's another case of someone thinks they are smarter than someone else ... their pen is larger than yours and so on ... it only leads to dislike and friction ... move on from the negativity ... I'm not saying their is anything wrong with criticism ... and after a couple words of debate doesn't lead to a resolution ... Breathe ... let it go ... move on to something that brings positive energy and good change to your community ...
Now to get back to the original question that Masriyattl posed in the beginning: Masriyattl, all you can do is to keep doing what you are doing ... first make sure that you are knowledgable about the topic you are trying to educate others on and relay this information in a sensitive unbiased way ... education is the key/remedy to many of the trials and tribulations that the world is struggling through today. When it comes to the topics of religion, culture, tradition, etc ... make sure the person is aware that you are expressing your opinion on the subject and that the same beliefs may or may not be viewed the same by all in that religion, culture, or tradition ... because, once again then you have someone else walking away thinking that all Muslims believe what you believe in or don't believe in ... so I can make myself dizzy with all of this as well ... because here we are again ... how do we educate each other on these topics when even the beliefs of the people from your same "belief" view somethings differently??? I know and sympathize with your feelings that you mentioned in the blog ... I am an American of Iranian descent born and raised in the south ... talk about the constant questions, judgements, assumations!!! I'm not saying whether I'm a Muslim, Christian, Jewish, or Buddhist because I believe that your actions speak louder than words or labels ... my religion is for me to know, nobody else's business ... saying this, you don't know how many people group me into a category without even checking with me ... I've had a supposed educated Professor tell me "I would convert to Islam just to have your pretty skin coloring" ... first of all we will not mention that DUH religion has nothing to do with skin color ... but did she even ask me or know what faith I affiliate myself with ... the same thing goes for the many people this past Christmas telling me that they didn't know if they should send me a card because they might offend me ... but do those people know that I may too be a Christian ... No they just assumed that I couldn't be because of the region that my ancestors were from ... it makes me laugh ... and it makes me sad ... and we are just pinpointing the ignorance of people about religion and creed ... I have also delt with ignorance because of where I grew up and live ... many of my fellow Iranians have made remarks about the south when they have no knowledge of it first hand ... People unfortunately are the same anywhere you go ... they go on what they hear or see on TV or because thier Uncle Ahmad told them so .... LOL
Take it easy ... we can only start small (with ourselves and our own families) and perhaps that knowledge will grow and florish with a little bit of water and a whole lot of Miracle Grow !!!
Live life & be happy!
Mellissa :-)

nubianbutterfly wrote on Jan 24, 08:06 PM

I so love the comments post by Said, Ladiablesse, but especailly by Honybee. Honybee I don't think I could have put it as beautifully as you did. Thank you so much for your post. To answer Shoo's question, no I am not muslum. But the fact that you didn't even read our profiles, and just assumed that we are both muslum just proves Masriyaatl's point that the world would be such a better place if "every citizen upon himself or herself to be educated. Wouldn't this world be a much better place to live in? Wouldn't we look at each other more as brothers and sisters and less like enemies?" Shoo, have you ever been to Saudi Arabia? It doesn't seem like it, but if you went to New York and screamed the very same thing, well the outcome of such an act in NY, is pretty much the same outcome as you'd rec'v in Saudi Arabia.

Oh Shoo one more thing:

Japan's religious history has been a long process of mutual influence between religions. Shinto has been a big part of Japanese life ever since the beginning of Japan's history and continues today.

When Buddhism was introduced into Japan in the sixth century, it started to have an effect on the Shinto beliefs, and vise versa. An interesting example of this interaction is honji suijaku, in which shinto kami were seen as the incarnations of Buddhist deities.

Two other religions that were brought into Japan are Confucianism and Taosim. For more than 1,000 years, these religions have had significant impact on Japan's society. The rules of Confucianism have had major impact on the ethical and political philosophy by it's influence during the sixth to ninth centuries and later from 1600 to 1868. The use of the Chinese calendar, fortune-tellers, among other things is a result of Taoism in Japan. It is much harder to trace than Confucianism, it's influences are still seen today.

you can find this @ www.asianinfo.com

The Japanese religious tradition is made up of several major components, including Shinto, Japan’s earliest religion, Buddhism, and Confucianism. Christianity has been only a minor movement in Japan. However, the so-called “new religions” that arose in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries are a prominent feature of Japanese religious life today.
www.iniana.edu

Religions in japan are classified into Shinto, Buddhism, Christianity, and miscellaneous religions. Shinto is essentially indigenous, but has been heavily influenced by Buddhist ideas and practices. Buddhism and Christianity were both introduced from abroad, but the degree to which they have become indigenous to Japan differs substantially. Miscellaneous religions are mostly the so-called New Religions.
www.utexas.edu

shoobidoobidoo wrote on Jan 25, 01:29 PM

honeybee...you said, and I quote: "what is wrong is telling people what they should or shouldn't believe because someone or something told them it is so (ie. Mullahs, Priests, Scientists)" You are being intellectually dishonest to yourself and everyone else when you put Mullahs and Priests in the same category as Scientists. According to your logic, we should not believe in any of the discoveries and advancements that scientists have made throughout our history; I have to respectfully say that your statement above is incredibly flawed.

The word science is derived from the Latin word Scire, which means to know. Science is the investigation of natural phenomena through observation, theoretical explanation, and experimentation, or the knowledge produced by such investigation. Science makes use of the scientific method, which includes the careful observation of natural phenomena, the formulation of a hypothesis, the conducting of one or more experiments to test the hypothesis, and the drawing of a conclusion that confirms or modifies the hypothesis.

Mullahs, and Priests do nothing to advance our civilization; Science does.

"Examples of God's failure to protect humanity are everywhere to be seen. The city of New Orleans for instance was recently destroyed by a hurricane. More than a thousand people died; tens of thousands lost all their earthly possessions; and nearly a million were displaced. It is safe to say that almost every person living in New Orleans at the moment Hurricane Katrina struck shared the same belief in an omnipotent, omniscient, and compassionate God. But what was God doing while Katrina laid waste to their city? Surely he heard the prayers of those elderly men and women who fled the rising waters for the safety of their attics, only to be slowly drowned there. These were people of faith. These were good men and women who had prayed throughout their lives. Do you have the courage to admit the obvious? These poor people died talking to an imaginary friend. Of course, there had been ample warning that a storm of biblical proportions would strike New Orleans, and the human response to the ensuing disaster was tragically inept. But it was inept only by the light of Science. Religion offered no basis for a response at all. Advance warning of Katrina's path was wrested from mute Nature by meteorological calculations and satellite imagery. God told no one of his plans. Had the residents of New Orleans been content to rely on the beneficence of God, they wouldn't have known that a killer hurricane was bearing down upon them until they felt the first gusts of wind on their faces. And yet, as will come as no surprise to anyone here, a poll conducted by the Washington Post found that the event has only strengthened their faith in God. Why, because the survivors imagine that they were spared through God's grace.

It is time we recognized the boundless narcissism and self-deceit of the saved. It is time we acknowledged how disgraceful it is for the survivors of a catastrophe to believe themselves spared by a loving God, while this same God drowned infants in their cribs. Once you stop swaddling the reality of the world's suffering in religious fantasies, you will feel in your bones just how precious life is, and indeed, how unfortunate it is that millions of human beings suffer the most harrowing abridgments of their happiness for no good reason at all." Excerpt from Sam Harris' book, Letter to a Christian Nation.

Later I will reply to your assertion that my atheism is a form of religion.

shoobidoobidoo wrote on Jan 25, 04:10 PM

Nubian...I see you did your research into the Japanese religions. I'm well aware of the history of the different Japanese religions, if you can call them that; although Shinto and Buddhism are more of a Japanese culture than a religion. Buddhism actually does not incorporate the worship of a sky god, as is normal in the three major religions of today. And Shinto is a lot more similar to paganism.

According to Norris and Inglehart (2004), 65% of those in Japan do not believe in God. Therefore I'm right when I say that if you were born in Japan, you would more than likely be an atheist, and if not and atheist, you would most likely not believe in a sky god.

I wish that you could comprehend my point rather than trying to correct my assertion. My point is that all infants are born atheist, but then we become infested with our parents delusions of a sky god and his profits. The religion we adopt is not our choice, rather we learn to accept it purely because our parents tell us to believe, with absolutely no shred of evidence.

shoobidoobidoo wrote on Jan 25, 04:24 PM

Honeybee...this is my response to your assertion that Atheism is a religion.

Of all the absurd propositions advanced by religious persons, the idea that atheism is a religion may be the most far-fetched. All religions have the same underlying premise: to avoid the reality of earthly existence and to get 'right' with some supernatural realm, whether it be God, Nirvana, or the 'oneness of the universe. Religion thus functions as an escape mechanism, and its adherents are intent on escaping reality rather than confronting it head-on. Some religionists claim that atheism is a religion because atheists deal with and concern themselves with religion. This is patently absurd; calling an atheist a religious person because he or she deals with religion is like calling a fireman an arsonist because he deals with fire. The atheist is, or should be, a person with self-confidence and the ability to think freely, without the crutch of religious superstition. Atheists concern themselves with the problems of this world, not with ways of making Brownie points with some imaginary deity to gain entry into an imaginary next world. Atheists see many of the problems in the world as emanating from the same source: the irrationalities and immoralities of religion.

Atheism, based on reason, is a positive, life-affirming view. By contrast, religions, because they (at least in their holy writings) denigrate our earthly existence, are philosophies of death. Nowhere is this point better illustrated than in Christianity; its entire philosophy is based on a hatred for this life. Any system that teaches that this life is but a testing ground for eternal bliss is a philosophy of death.

Anyone who claims that atheism is a religion is completely ignorant as to what the basic tenets of what atheism (and religion) actually are. Atheists will have none of this nonsense. They recognize the religious world as a fantasy world, and religious belief as a form of self-delusion that should have no place in a rational mind.

Actually, it is a victory for atheists when believers call atheism a religion; by doing so, believers are at least tacitly admitting that the word "religion" has become so discredited that even they are using it as an epithet!

Atheism, far from being a religion, is its exact opposite. Atheists recognize that if there is to be a "heaven," it must be made now, here on earth, in this life. And it is we who must make it.

shoobidoobidoo wrote on Jan 25, 05:48 PM

Masriya...I will give you my word that the above posts by me will be the last regarding NO GOD. Sorry to have hijacked your post. Peace.

nubianbutterfly wrote on Jan 25, 11:13 PM

Ha, Shoo if you would follow your own advice about "I wish that you could comprehend my point rather than trying to correct my assertion" you wouldn't be in a state of defense. Why don't you just try to understand what was said in this blog without pushing your own belief's. Just try it, you might be enlightened.

shoobidoobidoo wrote on Jan 26, 01:24 PM

Nubian...I'll will try my best to be enlightened...thank you and everyone else for this engaging debate.

Love you all,

Peace.

rezak wrote on Mar 16, 06:14 PM

Wow. Wow again. I just finished reading this whole post and am shocked for a few reasons.

1. You guys are great. I never seen such heated engagement in deep rooted believes with such politeness and respect for each other.

2. I was promised that our new cybercity will give us a new way of expressing ourselves, without restrictions but with topics that come from real people, not media. This is the proof that this city is ours. Ours to keep, grow, learn, and be better people. If we can influence this city, we can also influence our physical city.

3. This is the unfortunate part, going back to the original question. The media in the western world (as it is a lot more sophisticated that the eastern world propaganda) is winning this war hands down. Their push for the last decade has been to get the people to be against each other as governments are, so it helps the heads of states to do what they want to do. Seeing this blog is telling me that unfortunately, they are successful in their drive, as they have put us in different sides of the fence that does not exist. One is on the offensive, the other is on defensive. What are we fighting for is unknown. What we are trying to get to is abstract? Even for us.

But what is the outcome? The outcome is what we've seen develop for the last few years. It's the same outcome we've seen between whites and blacks, landowners and workers, and many other man made conflicts that stemmed from human ego.....for many centuries.

So are we giving in?

If everyone stops and ask him/herself a simple question, answer the question honestly and then start a new life based on that answer, we will all be a better person and it definitely starts from there.

If I am driving down the street and I see a 7 year old child was hit by a car and lying on the ground, would I stop to help her???

If the answer is yes, then do you care if the child is White? Black? Muslim? Christian? Jewish? Irish? Ethiopian? Samoan? Boy? Girl?

I didn't think so. So you have it in you to concentrate on all the good things in all of us, no matter where we were born, what color we are and what our parents thought us. That only makes us more unique, interesting and at times challenging.

Love,

Reza

sohilmomin2000 wrote on May 27, 07:01 AM

everything is said above
we can know why muslims are terrorist if we know the history
from the begining the islam is criticised and muslims are suffered
the al kayeda who bombed on 9/11 was founded by america it self
it was formed by american fbi in time when there was russian assault in afghanistan
and given weapons
why there are largest factories of weopon in the america and britain as they claim to be peace lovers......????????
they are the biggest sellers of the weopons
and they are the true terrorists
there are some muslims who r terrorist but they are made by countries like america
tell me how they get weopons so many and money
no muslim billionair is giving money for them
if u think from charity then it can not be proven than it is a biggest lie of the world
so if we want peace then lets talk about simillarities and not the differences in us
lets not talk about past but think about a good future
do not continue enemity in ur heridatory
forgiving is theway to end the war
as quran says
come closer to each other in common terms and try to understand each other
so live and let live is the motto of my life
i dont believe in terrorism
there are many terrorists gruops of hindus christians jew but they are not related with their religion then why islam is related with irresponsible ativity of a human who is muslim?????

kinghaddad wrote on Mar 18, 04:02 PM

You are not alone, obviously. I would add my voice to the issue and raise my concern over the fact that not one single Arabic or Muslim organization is trying to sue those media outlets over their targeted campaign. I wonder what would happen if they broadcast a program demoizing Jews and degrading them??? I can assure you that whomever is responsible would never work in TV ever again.

We don't know how to go after those agencies and make it very costly for them whever they produce something like that.

sohilmomin2000 wrote on May 14, 09:16 AM

every body gets the complain that no one is saying against terrorist attacks than i would like to add that in india the worlds biggest islamic conference took place and the islamic scholars have banned terrorism and given fatawa that it is no allowed in islam and now they are giving conferences all over india in different parts gathering muslims and giving the right knowledge to them and guiding them to the truth

so there is no excuse left for the critics of islam to accuse muslims now

and about terrorist attakcs if u go on the site of cia usa it lists the attacks of terrorists on that site and you will find only 28 attacks of terrorists related to islam and out of them 26 are said to done by them and no proof available and 2 are said that al qaeda claimed they did it

if u see the list of attacks by hindu terrorists i.e. ulfa has more than 700 confirmed attacks and christians have many more than any other religion

so we cant say that religion is responsible for this attacks

it is the fault of the people who are aethiests and dont fear of god and just want to make money buy selling their waepons they keep the fighting going on and on by one or other means

so to get peace in this world to prevail we require religion

religion is not the cause of terrorism but injustice and opperession is the true cause of terrorism

may allah give peace and blessings on all of you

William wrote on Jun 03, 09:33 AM

hey

oh daym, is this what you guys get in america? Im Will, im asian\muslim, and living in Australia. Over here, people accept whatever religion your from, and we get on with our lives. Well there are obvioulsy some fags that think wrong. But pretty much every culture here is working together. Hence our harmony day last semester.

I always knew that there were muslims in america, but i never knew about the trauma you guys were having. we hardly get news of arab\muslims or anything about islam being critizised here. Heck, i have a band. My drummer follows Juddaism and my second guitarist is christian.

And last but not least, may Allah help see most if not all Americans see the light

Your brother in Islam from Austrlia
Will

amen212 wrote on Jun 27, 12:21 AM

Hello Everyone..

I agree and disagree with many of you. I do agree that Muslims are going through some tough times in America, and i disagree with the Comments that most of you made concerning this matter. We shouldnt forget September 11 and the innocent lives that were taken on that horrific event. Terrorist attacks such as 9/11 are the reason for people to think Muslims are terrorists. Do you blame them?

We all know that Muslims are not terrorists, We all know that the Majority of Muslims dont believe in kiiling People because they have a different faith or religion, but what are Muslims doing about it? Were so good at Protesting Cartoons about the Prophet, Many Muslims are good at burning Flags on tv, and you dont want the Western World to think were Crazy and Terrorists??????? My friends Im a Muslim American my self and what I would love to see is the Muslim World to stand up and denounce terrorism, to Stand up and denounce the thoughts of killing innocent People because they have a different faith, or culture. I'm sorry but i just dont see the Muslims doing enough to show the world that were not terrorists. Muslims are so good to denounce the Actions of others and not their own. We will Protest a cartoon, but we wont Protest a suicide Bomb!!! We will Burn Flags, but we wont Denounce Sucide Bombings.!!!!

I Agree that Muslims are going through some tough times in the states, and Im sure Many People know that Muslims are not Terrorists, but they just choose not to believe so, but I do think that Muslims need to Stand up against those who make the Muslim Faith seem like a Scary Barbaric Religion . Muslims need to stand up and Denounce the actions, thoughts, and any words of Terrorists!! Because Terrorists are the ones who Commit terrorists acts, Kill innocent People in America and around the world "incluing Muslims" and than say its in the name of Islam!!! Theyre the ones who are blackening the Picture if Islam and turning a peaceful Religion into a Bloody Religion.
WWW.WORLDANGELSONLINE.COM

amen212 wrote on Jun 28, 01:36 AM

Masriya, Im glad to finally find someone who agrees with me as well. Im sure there are alot of Muslims against Terrorism and Preach for peace, but I think Muslims can do more to make their voices heard. We should be able to get our voice out and say that Muslims are not Terrorists, nor do they believe in any act of Terrorism. We should also make it clear that Islam does not Preach or Teach the Killing of non-Mulsims.

A few sick People commited horrific and sickening acts of terrorism and claimed it was in the name if Islam. They Preach to killing non Muslims in the name of Islam, Where in reality Islam does not Teach or Preach Killing None Muslims. If we dont do more to Preach Peace, and show the World that Islam is a Religion of Peace and Harmony not only are we going to let Terrorists destroy the reputation of a Great Religion that comes from the meaning of Peace, but we will see more Blood of Innocent People. The only way to destroy Terrorists is to prove them wrong, and to prove them wrong We need to show the world that they do not represent Islam in any way shape or form.

Masriya, by the way i tried to go on the website freemuslimsagainstterrorism.com and their was no such website. The results said the website can not be found. Error

felicity wrote on Jul 06, 08:05 AM

Very interesting debate, and thank you to mariyaATL for the starting blog.
i read many articles about living in the west/non muslim society, main advice is about being a good example as a minority muslim to a majority non muslim like what happened in Madina when prophet and companions moved in and were offered sanctuary. i understand i have to be law abiding and present dawaa within my own personal limitations. i am third generation uk born muslim and sometimes find it difficult to relate to muslims from very strict muslim backgrounds who only arrived to uk recently, perhaps victims of USled aggression. But i still pray ... & try to help others.

A few facts about islam is that it exists since the beginning of time, recognising all prophets known or unknown to man who professed monotheism, interestingly there are strands of islam in most belief systems.
And that mankind are interrelated to each other since creation. i think there's enough scientific evidence to support that.
There is always a struggle between good and bad, morality and immorality, chaos and order and in between, the expectation of some divine intervention - God knows.

walk_the_talk wrote on Jul 25, 11:31 PM

I can only wonder if there will ever come a time, when someone/ some group doesn't have to defend themselves, their way of life, their choices.

Will there ever come a day when the majority understands that when one person has the attention of many and speaks out, they are speaking their opinion not fact.

Over the years I've become ashamed of how willing people are to hear hate statements, and are willing, almost eager to pass them forward.

I can't help wonder when one group won't need to feel better about themselves by lashing out at another.

Will there ever come a time, when the majority of the human race accepts the individual ,minus the labels, just because thats the way it should be done.

Let my acts of kindness trumpet, and my brief moments of anger/stupidity be forgiven.

I can claim to be a woman, a lesbian, to being born a christian, to loving an arab, but I don't believe I can ever claim to be perfect.

No matter what, one thing cannot be argued, we are in this together, it is up to us to make the best of it.

Ewelina_PL_Spain wrote on Sep 25, 07:16 AM

Dearest Masriya, and everybody else here,

I know this conversation started a long time ago, but the truth is I have seen today for the first time. I am not sure if you are still talking, really...

Anyway, Masriya, first of all wishing you all the best in this holy month of Ramadan. It will soon be over and I hope it will have helped you grow spiritually.

I am not a muslim myself. Ethimologically, as a person searching God's will, perhaps, but officially I find it impossible ... as there seem to be not one but many Islams, some strongly opposing each other. I hope nobody feels offended by these words. I wish all the muslims all the best with all my heart. You have once created a beautuful culture with precious values and there are many reasons for other people to admire you. Besides, I think your idea of God is clearer and more "logically defendable" than the Christian one (with all my respect), essentially. I grew up in a catholic background in Poland. For me, as for you, the subject of faith has always been fundamental. I decided to study theology. I have got my degree and I have done some postgrade studies after which I received the official permission (called Licencia Canonica) to teach catholic theology - specializing in the history of spiritual life (not only christian) - at universities.

But I wouldn't do that. After more than 8 years of studying the whole catholic system of ideas one has it clear that there has been too much human influence in what is officially called divine and sacred over the centuries. Shoobidoobidoo is right, religions should be submitted to criticism. Not one religion and not once. All of them and constantly. I am not trying to say that we should question our own or anybody else's faith. There is a difference between faith and religion. A great difference. Faith is a common core, like the air we all breathe. Dear Shoobi - even atheism is based on a kind of faith... or not?. And it is sometimes so sublime that even one oneself cannot easily "detect" one's faith or measure it's strenghth in any way.

But then, religions is something that differentiates us. The real problem is when they actually start dividing us and putting ones against others, sometimes very violently . And this is sadly what happens very often. I am afraid we cannot do anything more about it than just to make our own personal choice and commitment based on good will and respect. At the end of the day, if we are going to be judged some day, we are not going to be saved nor sentenced by flocks but one by one, no? We are, more than anything else, self responsible.

If the religions only differentiated us, life on earth would be close to living in Paradise. This is, I think, what you, Masriya, experience with your friends. You are different and you actually love each other. I think it is beautiful. Religions - are an expession of our human nature and culture, our longing for eternity, for perfection, for justice... And they are beautiful as a phenomenon. So different in different parts of the globe, they give people means to develop, to feel better, to face everyday problems according to their real needs in the specific times, places and other conditions. But as such - as something at least partially circumstantial (depending on human nature and georgaphical conditions - although, for those who believe, having the divine source) - religions should be submitted to constant rectification. First of all in one's own heart. And when I say "heart" I mean it as the ancient did - as actually mind.

I think that to cohabitate in peace with others, it is enough to remember that our freedom ends at the end of our noses. I mean first of all, respect. At the same time we should strive to maintain our own integrity and coherence as a human, with or without religions and/or supernatural beliefs, according to everybody's own choice and understanding. ...We should also have our minds open to what science brings. If God gave us our whole body to be used, it would be improper to forget about the brain.
I think you agree.

Best wishes to you all,
Ewelina.

yasintalley wrote on Oct 12, 12:40 AM

Some very interesting comments. They say that Islam is as Islam does.
Muslims need to really wake up as a community because their disunity
is a sign that the community is in turmoil, and has been in turmoil for quite
some time. Muslims have been dealing with terrorism within their own
community, therefore it is natural that this type of deviation flows out.
Power struggles almost crippled the community after the Prophets
death, and this same power struggle lives on, be it Iran, Iraq, etc.
Trying to convince people that Muslims are not terrorist is very difficult.
Jihad is a core principle in the faith, so much so that it can be considered
a 6th pillar. Of course many Muslims will disagree on the meaning of Jihad,
but clearly Muslims want to see the Laws of Allah being implemented every
where the Sun shines. I can go on and on about Jihad, but many non-Muslims
are aware of the verses, and understand that there BLOOD is halal. With this
understanding they are going to make movies, music, and fuss. The very fact that
the majority of the Muslims are not speaking out against terrorist acts against innocent civilians, shows that secretly the approve of this madness. Martin Luther King said:
An injustice anywhere is an injustice everywhere".

How can you separate yourself from Bin Laden, Sadaam Hussein, and their ilk, when they all say SHAHADAH? This is the corruption we face in the name of religion. The Catholic church has to deal with priest fondling and molesting boys. They have to deal with it as a community, because society doesn't afford itself the right to view a FEW, they view the WHOLE. The prophet said the community is one JASAD (BODY) if one part is sick, then the whole body stays up in fever. Therefore we are up in fever, and it looks like its going to be a long night.

darman wrote on Nov 08, 03:03 PM

Have anybody ever though how proud Israelis are of their own terrorists? The son of one of the ultar-nationalist israeli terrorist will become the Chieff of Staff in the White house next year.

Rahm Emanuel's father was a member of a zionist organization responsible for hundreds of civilian death, including an explosion in Kind David hotel. Yet he is considered a veteran and a hero in Israel right now. You will not see an Israeli or an American Zionist rejecting Israeli Terror. But they will use all means available to make all muslims feel guilty for the deeds of some desperate men and women, who happen to be muslims.
As far as Bin Laden and Sadam Hussein, they were heroes in the western world when they opposed Soviets and Iran respectively. Ronald Reagan received Afghan mujahideens in the White House in 1983, congratulated them and exhorted them to fight for their Religion! Jihad was a good thing then. Hard to believe that it only happened twenty years ago!
Dr. Norman Finkelstein, a son of Holocaust survivors, writes in his book "Beyond Chutzpah" that it is the Israeli agression and mistreatment of civilians what drives up the anger of the palestinians and provokes desperate acts of self sacrifice. Dr. Finkelstein makes an interesting point, he says that the war, the suffering and the terror will stop when Israel suffers a defeit, and the Palestinians get the chance to live a normal life. He clearly identifies the military actions by Israel as the cause of all the problems in the Middle East at this time.
This terrorism today is not a part of Islamic culture. This is a big fat lie! Terror was and is used today by representatives of all religions, because it always was and still is nothing but a tool of a militant community with political goals.

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