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thesis on god-lets

Some vagrant thoughts about the "supreme"

I'm sure philosophers before me have already thought this out (not that I consider myself as one).  But, as always, I like being difficult.

I consider myself an agnostic. Not going to explain what that is. But, growing up in an orthodox family, I've sort of done the obvious by moving myself towards the other side. Perhaps to understand what it is to live outside of the religious box. 

Supreme-ness of the God:

Well, I suppose its reasonably logical thought. That if you are a God, you wouldn't have to answer to anyone. Thus, you are it.. no other Gods can exist - otherwise you wouldn't be God. That is, if in case you choose to define the God-liness as a trait that is unique - a supreme being. Supreme being a superlative, you can't have two supremes (well I thought there were three.. but.. hey..).

Getting a raise..

What does it matter now that you've figured out that only one supreme being can exist. In fact, following some more logical thoughts, I think it matters less.

So, say you are a good hardworking employee in a company. Now, say you want a raise. You would petition your boss, who might laugh at you, in which case you might have the gumption to go to his boss and see if you can get something out of him. However, your first thought of the day when you wake up going "damn! I need a raise for all the hard excellent work I'm doing", is not, "I'm going ta go up to that almighty CEO and ask him for a raise!". Because you know, while there is an open door policy with a lot of companies, your CEO doesn't know you or your work enough to give you a raise - even if he might take it upon himself to be bothered with it.

I hear you all now.. right right.. god hears all our prayers and all that.. right right.. and CEOs are not gods and therefore can't be compared.. yes yes all that.

Taking it one step further..

So, if you humor me on the logic that God like CEO may not be able to hear all your pleas, then, what are we left with?  The logical next step (at least in my opinion) is that he's given the job of listening to one of his cronies. Maybe like a manager for worldly affairs. So, now obviously having limited space-time issues he's got a large number of such cosmic managers. Some taking care of nature of the universe some doing the necessary sunday-night trash removal, some sun creators, destroyers all that jazz. There's got to be a whole huge platoon of god-lets to manage all that. That is assuming that there are more worlds just like ours - not assuming that would be a bit self-inflating.

Now, since they are god-lets, they can't always be unerring and perfect. So they must have their screw ups too.. like "oops that planet wasn't supposed to go towards the sun" and kill a  gazillion souls.. "oh well back to the drawing board.. and hush don't tell God I did that.. i'll get a thorough thrashing..". If the idea of god-lets is not appealing, lets just say that there have to be beings more advanced than man, but not as advanced as God. And I'm sure they can do god-like things, that to us are indistinguishable from the real thing (who knows maybe we're some god-let kid's 8th grade ant-farm experiment).

What the hell am I trying to say? 

For an entity that does not manifest itself in any measurable manner, God does get a lot of credit. We apply it just like one would use caulk to fill gaps. Anywhere there is something inexplicable we caulk God into that. Its just that easy.. why did I have a stomach ache? well god wanted me to learn about not eating 14 hot dogs all at the same time. What will happen to bad people? god will punish them (knowing that *you* are incapable of affecting the "bad" people's lives, but are suddenly willing to make the all-forgiving-one spank the bad people for your sake), who made the teacher trip and lose all the exam questions? god did.. because I hadn't studied at all but I prayed for something to happen..or the more thought provoking ones like how was the universe created? .. i don't know.. oh.. so it must have been god!  what about the internet? oh well that was Al Gore.. and so on and so forth.. 

... okay, that didn't really have the "point".. so what is the point..? 

So, if our reality (such as the CEO-employee analogy) were to be stretched into the God realm, we'd be looking at a bunch of managers that may not have the right incentive to do the best job. And any tidying that needs to be done always requires energy, the natural order of things is to become un-tidy. Just like a kid will clean up the room given the incentive that he *won't* get a spanking. But, in general, all ordered things over time tend to become disordered (that's the logic behind idea of "entropy"). So if this world has a lazy manager, it will become "untidy" over time.

So, what I'm getting at is that whilst there maybe a supreme being, he probably has no time between his crack in the space-time continuum meeting and  twisted wormhole problems going on in his life, for problems you pray to him for. And maybe it makes you feel good to pray - which is a great reason to pray, but as a logical sort of a person I can't get myself to think that there's someone up there - or down, there's no up/down in space - listening - other than some snot nosed god-let-kid doing his cosmic ant-farm project for his homework.

In upcoming episodes (oh god, he's got more.. god please make him shut up) I might discuss other varieties of god-logic I cook up.

 

 

 

 

 

Comments (9)

valarien

valarien wrote on Mar 11, 01:38 PM

OK,

I'm following the thoguht process to a degree Venk, but here's how I'm seeing it.
I think the basic fallacy for me is in the logic of giving God, man-like qualities. As opposed to God being a single individual, like a CEO, who would then HAVE to delegate and would be incapable of being 100% engaged in all aspects of the universe at once, what if instead we look at God more like air.

God is Spirit, and by not being a physical entity is not limited by the same constraints as man. So, for this analogy, let's say that spirit is like air or a gas. Then no matter where you go, spirit is there in some quantity. Furthermore, it is actually a necessity for our existence and an integral part of out being. Now....I nkow that you are a thinker, so you are going to want to tell me that we are, in fact 75% water, but Oxygen is a base element in water. So even then, the air must be present for our existence.

In my thoughts, God is not this supremem being that's pulling all the strings. We have free will, what many people call conscience, is their Spirit. Telling them what's right or wrong. So, because spirit is a part of us, there is no need for God to act like an overseer, because the very essence of God, good, love and light, are within every person. Where I come from, we great one another by saying "Namaskar" which means, "I behold the Divinity in You".

But, ultimately, it's all about faith. None of us truly know all of the keys of the universe. Could one faith be wrong? Absolutely! Could we all be wrong? That's a definite possiblity. Regardless, we all live the best life that we know how. For me that means trying my hardest to do right by all those around me, so that when it's all said and done, I will have no regrets. IT also means accepted and respecting that everyone will have different views (or lack thereof) regarding religion/beliefs. I just believe in my heart that every individual will come to the place they are supposed to be, at some point in time. So rather than spinning my wheels trying to make someone see things my way, life is so much more enjoyable to just accept them where they are, in love and knowing that eventually, all things work out.

Don't know if that was a logically sound rebuttal, but it is from my heart! (Raggedy as it is at the moment! LOL!)

Venkman

Venkman wrote on Mar 11, 03:40 PM

I guess what I don't understand is this obsession with connecting ourselves to god saying that "it" (god can't be a he or a she given its uniqueness) is listening to me. Why should that be?

And this is where I feel that we're reaching, fantasizing, and "caulking" god into what WE need. Even if we have to make all sorts of stretches of imagination and assumptions in order to fit the god quantity into the equation. For what gain? and the answer is? personal satisfaction, it makes you happy, it makes you fear unforeseen, out of control situations less because you feel there's a protective entity. Now that is quite powerful incentive to bend logic.

To be point blank, we "created" the god-entity. I'm pretty sure if I said one day that I'm god you wouldn't believe me on bit - hell I wouldn't believe me one bit. So, it is obviously a no-proof decision that has these attractive benefits - its like a free insurance for your future, and which we've extended even past our death to reduce our fears.

But, I'm a logical person, and this I find hard to swallow. I'm searching for my answers though. And, I'm not buying into faith, to me it sounds too much as "ignorance is bliss" and I truly don't believe in that.




Venkman

Venkman wrote on Mar 11, 06:07 PM

Oh and one other thing.. this is certainly not a writ related to the good and evil sort of thing. And I do understand this is a very touchy topic :)

This is to do with exploring how did one conclude that there is a god? or why do people believe there is one (theists)? or why do some believe there isn't (atheists)?
I mean we go to great extents in our judicial system in terms of proof of innocence and guilt, but it appears that the god-entity gets a free ride on "faith".

Nothing in this universe should be out of bounds of research. So, if you claim existence of god, I'd like to know the what's the why's the how's of this god. And on the other hand, if you claim there isn't a God, I still want to know how someone made that conclusion. How does one disprove the existence of a supreme being? I won't take that on faith either.

DRomeo

DRomeo wrote on Mar 11, 09:54 PM

Interesting blog Venk.

Val, I really like how you expressed that.

I've heard spirit also related to a field as in physics.  There is a field (let's say gravitational for this discussion) and at any point in the field there is a measurable force exerted on an object.  However, this force emerges only as an effect or phenomenon from the field which is infinite in scale and timeless/dimensionless.  From what we understand, "gravity" is everywhere.

Any force can be measured and therefore is limited.  The field, being infinite has infinite force.  By definition it is immeasurable.  The field is "all powerful."

The aspect of the intellect that can measure force and use it as a tool (linear thinking) is but part of a larger intellect (non-linear) that is also aware of the field and its infinite potential. 

We've seen what happens to "civilization" when people are mainly focused on "small mind" analysis.  Faith is not the absence of logic, it is part of a fuller understanding of the nature of reality.

The field is a unified oneness that is unopposed.  Only force can be negated (by counter force.)  Check out authors like David Hawkins for perhaps a clearer expression of these ideas.


Venkman

Venkman wrote on Mar 11, 10:56 PM

Val: I forgot to add that enjoyed reading your comment :)
D: I enjoyed reading your comments too!
The field concept is good, it has some issues but in general its good. The reason I feel its got merit is that maybe its like radio waves, we didn't realize they existed until one day we (dunno who) figured that out. So, its possible that such a phenomenon is as of yet undiscovered.
Field issues: an infinite field does not imply infinite force - in fact in nature its usually the opposite, bigger the field lesser its effects (sort of a "spread thin" issue).
Faith: Not sure I have ever heard faith equated to understanding, its typically equated to an implicit acceptance rather than total comprehension.

I have another curious thought.. lets say that you were right.. and one day some smart scientist figures out there is such a "god" field - would anyone accept that as "God"?
I'm guessing that won't cut it.
And that is sort of the problem with the god concept - it has a need to be undefinable otherwise it sort of loses its.. well.. god-liness..

kiakam

kiakam wrote on Mar 11, 11:25 PM

By reasoning our way to God we lose sight and separate ourselves from the Truth (Truth is non-dualistic). Like Val said, we are all interspiritual beings having a human experience, yet our existence is infinite. I believe that we are all born knowing GOD; we are born as a part of him in the search for the inseparable union between us and the Divine. On this path there are many veils and barriers to be removed, the main one is the ego, which tries to “reason” the Truth in the first place.

 

Faith is neither a scientific concept/theory nor a matter of understanding. Faith is Consciousness. And there are infinite levels of consciousness….

 

Anyways, great blog! Keep it comin’ ;)

One Love!

"I respect the place in you that is of love, of truth and of Light.
When you are in that place in you,
and I am in that place in me then we are one."

 

valarien

valarien wrote on Mar 11, 11:33 PM

Venk,
I know that if you are in a place of questioning, faith is a hard concept to accept.
But for me, ultimate peace and happiness come from KNOWINGin my very being that there is something greater than me.
Not something that is pulling all the strings like a child with a toy, but a spiritual force that is the very essence of who I am.
That is faith. No, it can't necessarily be quantified.
No matter what road you take, there will be dissention (sp.?)
Because just as I say I believe adn someone could ask me to 'prove it' the same could be said to someone who doesn't believe. How would that person 'prove it'
For me, the proof is in the intricacy of our bodies, this world, nature....there are so many wonderful things and I can't fathom that it was just some kind of fluke that just worked out.

But that's me.  I can ultimately only say that I think that the fact that you are asking these questions is the beginning of some deep thought that is a part of your spiritual journey....wherever it may lead you.

Thanks for the thought provoking blog!
Much love!

Venkman

Venkman wrote on Mar 11, 11:53 PM

thanks kia
And val, I think you understand where I'm going with this.
I'm happy that you have that feeling that you "know" (and you as well kia).
For me, I've always known myself as the kid that took apart a toy to figure out how it worked (yes, past tense since it never worked again.. lol).
Well, I've always chosen the harder way to do things just to see what's the deal with it.. so this life I'll experiment with my agnosticism.. maybe I'll figure it out, maybe I won't Smile

DRomeo

DRomeo wrote on Mar 12, 11:44 AM

Well said everyone.

Thanks Venk for making a place for this discussion.

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